My apologies to everyone for not getting comments moderated in a timely fashion. I’ve been in bed literally for the past 48 hours trying to fight the flu and possibly pneumonia. I ask you to please be patient with me if you don’t see your comment posted as quickly as you would like.
90 Responses to “Sorry for the Delay in Moderating Comments”
- 1 Pingback on Feb 21st, 2007 at 9:22 pm
Sorry to hear you aren’t feeling well. Hope you’re better soon! :0)
Jason
Sorry to hear that you are under the weather. Hope you start feeling better soon.
I have a question maybe you can answer it for me. If we (tax payers) have to pay $500.00 for Mr. Balsh, and Steve Maple and Gayle Houchins have been doing all this complaining as to not paying for it. Then why didn’t they go to the meeting? This meeting took place even without them. We still had to pay $500.00 for it with or without them. They decided not to attend. Did they not waste our tax dollars? Isn’t their grip that it’s a tax payer waste? Did they not do what they accuse the 4 doing? Wasting our tax dollars? I just feel that IF they REALLY wanted to SAVE tax payers money they would of least TRIED by going and trying to work things out.
Maple and Houchins are not stupid. I trust their judgment. They have clearly expressed why they felt the meeting would not be beneficial for them to attend. Your question indicates that you are grasping at straws.
You actually compare the hundreds of thousands of dollars (potentially millions) that the “Gang of Four” will squander with a few hundred dollars for this training? Please, these are not equivalent. Besides, it is the “Gang of Four” that needs the training.
Look in the mirror. The pot is calling the kettle black.
Joe Mamma,
Houchin walked out of the last board meeting and said right then that she wasn’t going to attend another training session so soon. Now the fact that the president decided to hold a training session with a paid consultant anyway is NOT a reflection on Maple or Houchin.
There was absolutely NO reason to have that meeting and to do so was a waste of money. The recommendations of the first consultant went unheeded, and the paid advice went unheeded. So the answer to the situation was to pi$$ away another $500?
I guarantee that if any of the four had to pay the cost out of their pocket they would have been far more likely to reschedule.
I’ve been amazed at how willing they are to squander taxpayer money.
It is simple Joe, it is getting down to nut cracking time and they know they have lost. It will be interesting to see what they do after the next board meeting.
They have tried to get the Supt back in the loop, cover for them, there actions will come out after next week. Did you see the email one of them sent out to the teachers? Unfortunately they will be exposed - alone - for all to see.
Exactly. Here is my post from the TBPS website in response to Gayle’s letter:
It is hard for me to understand why two people who are so adament in wanting mediation, now do not want to go through with it just because the other 4 members walked off stage last Monday? Do you think that is really an image that you both, Steve and yourself, need to present right now? I could see the media taking that as you both being demonstrative and not wanting to communicate with your board. I mean, Jo Ellen is still attending, so she obviously would also like to proceed with mediation…why won’t you two be bigger than that and just go? Maybe you will all learn something?? (the whole board) You cannot get past the events of last Monday’s board meeting by refusing to cooperate…that just seems as childish as everyone states the other four board members are. If Jo Ellen is going to rise above it, why won’t the two of you?
But my point is that “THE MEETING” was going to take place anyway and THEY knew it. But THEY still chose not to attend. The board agreed to this meeting at the last board meeting. I believe that Maple and Houchins have NOW showed us their TRUE COLORS. (Orange) I have attended ALL the school board meeting since June 2006. I have watched and listened very carefully and what I have seen is Gayle talking on her phone at one point she stooped down on the floor to talk on her phone. This IS on the meeting tapes. I have heard and seen Steve incite the crowd AGAINST the board, he appears to enjoy this. I have also seen Gayle making MANY faces (in which you claim the 4 do.) So If Gayle and Steve are an example of how you want the board to behave, YOUR RIGHT we are in BIG trouble. It appears to me that Doug has done things that he is not allowed to do and he probably will be fired. I personally think that a good house cleaning is in order. I hope they (the board) does this. I understand that you do not like the WAY that the board has done things. But under the circumstances I can see WHY they have done things the WAY they have. The FACTS are that ALL the board agreed on a meeting with Mr. Balsh at the meeting. Steve Maple and Gayle Houchins DID NOT attend. Therefore, Maple and Houchins CHOSE to WASTE our tax payers money. They also are elected officials who work for US. It looks as if, “Do as I say, Not as I do.” would be in play here. Don’t TURN this around to being Susan Adams fault. They ALL agreed at the meeting. It was only after the meeting that Gayle and Steve chose not to attend.
I am NOT grasping at straws!! Where are these hundreds of thousands of dollars (potentially millions) that they have wasted? On what?
$700.00 dinners?
Your wrong, ALL of the board members NEED the training. 2 of them don’t know how (or choose not) to behave WITHOUT intentionally inciting the crowd.
How would the COLTS have won the super bowl if Patton Manning would of got mad when he got sacked and said “Well I’m not playing anymore because things didn’t go my way?”
The pot calling the kettle black comment, I’m not even gonna comment on that. It was stupid.
Note to Jason:
You gave me an e-mail address earlier Info@wesupportwilliams.com Where I could send you some info. Is that offer still open? I have to figure out how to scan yet, I’m working on it. Thank you
Joe Mamma, the info@wesupportwilliams.com e-mail address is a valid one for you to send me anything you would like.
Was the waste of money by the leadership of the board forcing a meeting with a paid consultant prior to a commitment from all members of the board to attend or by the logical reasonable members of the board that know it is a waste of time because the persoanl vendetta group only wants the appearance of mediation and not the reality of what it might lead to?
I believe the fact that Jo Ellen attended spoke volumes. If she is willing to mediate with the four “personal vendetta”-ridiculous comment by the way-then why not Steve and Gayle? I just don’t get it? Why keep dividing something that cannot possibly be divided anymore?!
Some are not willing to accept the fact that the old Supt will be gone. They have stepped up and given the public their opinions and now they will have to live with them. Real hard for some of the board members and administrators. At this point they have no alternative but to work with each other and maybe some just can not.
Will they resign?
Will they quit?
Will they wait for the other shoe to drop?
Or will they stay on and be a thorn in the side of everyone?
Let’s see what they are made of.
William-ized,
You just don’t get it. It has nothing to do with the “old Supt” and everything to do with the current school board majority.
Why don’t you go to the forum that supports the board majority?
Oh, that’s right; you don’t have enough support to pull it off.
Will you continue to reiterate the same inane ranting?
Will you visit Oz to get what the scarecrow needed?
Will you continue to be the still small voice seeking an audience?
Let’s see what you are made of.
Again, you are looking under the wrong rock. All this have everything to do with the Supt. I am not in OZ - I am in Perry Township. If you think this is all about the board no wonder you all are going around in circles. Plain simple facts, the supt stepped way beyond his bounderies. He thought he was more powerful that the board. Others whom are connected to him are finding out that when the Titanic sinks, they are sinking also. After all this is said and done, the board, the administration, teachers union, AND our kids will do what it takes to reduce taxes, educate our children, without much help for anyone. They are professionals getting back to normal business in the township, not the political, biased, scare-tactics, of one man. Let him go haunt some other school system. Open your eyes.
Well said Williamized.
Hello All. I may as well throw this out there since I still seem to be posting due to replying to others
Initial attempt to focus on
“less than” behavior did no good at all. My apologies for the length.
Did the board members do wrong in not consulting with the other 3 prior to ? Yes. Would it have made a difference in the outcome ? No. Reasons to continue that topic ? None. It happens.
According to the Perryschools.info site, in the supporting documents section, there is a “self evaluation” showing the existance of a current complaint before the new board took over. It is also signed by Williams. He understood it then, he understands it now.
Perryschools.info has also added a Grapevine section to address questions. They are attemtping to keep people informed of the business that IS taking place. They are not stagnate. I see no evidence of the school system being torn up, only the community.
This is only an investigation. Once there are results, and IF, based upon those findings, it is decided he should be terminated, THEN the public should have a right to speak out with opinion. It is my understanding that only here will the ever so referenced Due Process come into play (I am also awaiting several views on my interpretation of Due Process in this situation) . The board cannot legally terminate his contract without Cause, its against the Law. This should not be a worry. I do not know how the “public” would be able to say one way or the other if there “should” be an investigation or not. Most of the Events leading to are Internal, not all of it is something that everyone would see even IF they attended every meeting of every board in this Township , read every item of info from every school in the district and spent hours sifting thru all available tid bits.
The Open Door Law guarantee’s the right to be present, it does not guarantee the right to speak. If granted a time to speak by the Board, you must adhere to the time limit. The ringing of the bell is not rude, the continuing to talk is Rude.
If the other 2 board members were so worried and concerned about board division, they wouldn’t be going out of their way to further divide. They would Not Be attempting to involve the “public” against this “hostile takeover” (not my words). They Would Be attempting to resolve the issue on the inside, IF thats what they wanted. Believe it or not, there is a Code of Ethics involving their actions too. And the past board members ? I don’t even know why they’d want to slap their biased comments in the newspapers if not to incite people. ( inciting people is NOT helping - it is contributing to negative public perception = property value)
A “Divided Board” over a 4-3 vote - Lets HOPE we always have a divided board. Do we all think the same way about every issue that comes along ? No. So a divided board would stand a better chance of actually Speaking for the TRUE majority. I would be concerned if it were always 7-0 .
Our property taxes increase while the property value goes down. This is true. It was happening before “this”. It is generally understood that public perception of a school system contributes greatly to property values . Even IF our school systems were the best in the Land, controversy such as this makes for bigger negative headlines than Any positive school rating. People won’t want US for neighbors - plain and simple.
As someone else stated, our schools are still functioning, our teachers are still teaching, our children are still learning ; there has been NO major disruption ,over one guy being on paid leave ,in Township Education.
Go to Board of Education web-site. Check out our schools. Look at the financial report, look at the Evaluation from early 2006 (it is interesting) , Compare us to other schools. I (and my husband who posted) already know full well how the graduation rates are calculated. We agree that GED’s should NOT be counted towards Graduation percentage and that those people who relocate to get away from our schools, can safely be referred to as Drop Outs from our system. Those two facts can’t be sugar coated.
As I have also stated before, in other wording, we can check all day long into new candidates but we’re still not going to know anything that’s not there to know and we most definitely cannot “Predict” their future actions ,for we know not what they will come up against.
“Superintendent of the Year Award”. Kudo’s to him. But where is our “School District of the Year ” Award ? Go investigate, see how we rank (and don’t look in just one or two places) And yes, I love our schools and teachers. I will Never Move out of this Township.
“The school boards behavior is bad, they treated people like children”. Were people acting like children ? If we wanted to know anything, we’d be quiet and listen. If we wanted others to “see for themselves” , we’d be quiet and let them. THEN we could voice dismay and be JUSTIFIED. But again, as I said, I will be at the next one and hopefully it will be Possible to “see for myself”.
I’ve been assuming the lack of real name’s on postings simply means there is a conflict of interest. It is called giving the “benefit of doubt”.
The letter from Williams to his Supporters is designed to do exactly what it is doing.
I could go on and on with this, literally (just ask my family
but the bottom line here is this is only an Investigation into the claims, at this time. If nothing is found to substantiate the claims, take it from There. For now, its emotionally driven and overly dramatized , with our Township looking pathetic as a result. The entire Crusade is a little Premature.
As far as any more chatter from me on the subject, there will be none. Its truly been a pleasure conversing with some of you. But if anyone really feels the need to continue to “enlighten” me, I’ll not deny them that. In fact, I would understand, so just come on by and have a cup of coffee , we’ll talk about it like Humans.
But I’ll not continue with anonymous conversations over the Net.
Have A Nice Day !
it all boils down to “trust”. They do not trust him. I don’t either.
William-ized,
This has very little to do with Williams. He is the scape-goat. Many dysfunctional units have a scape-goat and this is no exception. What happens is that after the scape-goat is removed from the situation, the dysfunction becomes worse - just like it has in this situation. Now they’re going after those other board members, former board members, that delusional PEA, all those mediocre administrators, the ‘very vocal minority’, and everyone else that stands in the way - past, present, and future. Eliminate all those people and we would have the school system Perry Township deserves and life would be great. Are you not seeing a pattern here?
Let’s talk about boundaries. A board that runs a school district the size of Perry township has enough things to worry about and deal with without getting into the administrative side of running a school district. That’s where the board majority crossed the line. He did not cross into their job - they crossed into his job. There are policies in place to keep that from happening, but they ignored those policies. Most board/superintendent issues arise from board members stepping outside their function and purpose; not the other way around.
They may not have crossed the line had they taken their job seriously and took it upon themselves to find out what they needed to be doing - as board members. Had they sat back and showed they were willing to learn, it would have been a good start. But they came in thinking they knew everything and proceeded to take over the running of a system they could not have possibly understood - their way - ignoring the pleas of the other members to slow down and take some time to sit back and learn what they need to be doing - not what they want to do.
Just because one has an advanced degree in HR does not mean that one needs to be sitting in on administrative HR decision processes as a board member. If Nancy Walsh wanted to do that - she needed to get a job in the district. As a board member she has no business getting involved in hiring processes beyond the superintendent.
Just because Adams is working on her superintendent’s certificate does not mean she should use a board position for OJT. Getting experience as a superintendent is not why a person should want to get elected to a school board position. Ms Adams needs to take a serious look at how SHE would react to a board such as the one she’s leading if she were in the role of superintendent. Of all the people on that board, she should have been the one to have his back and asked him to mentor her. Nope, it looks to me like she’s looking at getting his job and going about it all the wrong way. I think she believes she is qualified to run this school district. I believe she thinks that for all intents and purposes she is running this school district. In fact, I wouldn’t be surprised if becoming superintendent wasn’t dangled in front of her in exchange for her vote once she gets her license.
Now, if one takes the stance that Adams is running the school district then one needs to take a look at how she’s doing the job she put herself into. Well, less than 6 months into the job she’s managed to disenfranchise a whole heck of a lot of people. Amazingly enough according to her, she’s not the problem. Everyone else is the problem. She may not be THE problem, but she certainly hasn’t done anything to help. What she has done is not leadership. She has done nothing more than exercise positional authority a la “The Office”.
I am not sure why you would support this ‘Adams’ style of leadership unless you closely identify with her. As for me, I liked her better when she was a nobody. At least she didn’t do very much damage or her damage was localized. I’ve really tried to get a handle on what she’s all about. Maybe I’m asking the wrong people about her - a fairly random selection of people who might be acquainted with her - but I’ve yet to get a glowing review of her abilities as a board member or as an employee of a local school district. My personal observations leave me underwhelmed and NOT Impressed. She’s done nothing to change my mind and her supporters do even less.
I don’t know what your beef is with Williams and I don’t really care. I do know that he has done a lot more good for the district than he has done harm. I know he cares about the students and the teachers. I have personally observed this behavior as recently as last week. Has he rubbed these board members the wrong way? Obviously. Is this due to character problems on his part? I don’t think so. Is his character getting in the way of his leadership? Not nearly as much as theirs is.
What you have failed to do is convince me that I am engaged in the wrong cause. It may be a lost cause, but I don’t think it’s a wrong cause.
Please give me something to compel me to think differently.
Not Impressed -
Could you detail the job description of the typical board member?
PLAN TO ATTEND THE BOARD MEETING MONDAY, FEBRUARY 11 at 6:30 PM
Dear Admin: I heard that the cancellation of Dr. Williams contract would be discussed and/or finalized on Monday, February 11. Is that true?
The opposite of how Susan Adams behaves would be a good start.
She ruined the relationship between the teacher’s union and the community in Decatur Township. Ask the teachers over there how often they went without a contract because of her inability to lead them to an agreement with management. Ask some folks over there how she got the job of energy manager for the school district. Is she qualified? A teacher with a Master’s degree making sure the thermostats are turned down every night?
Wow, she is an educational leader isn’t she.
Veritas- again she was ELECTED! Notice the capital letters? But I am sure she much better that the three time loser attorney.
A typical board member concerns themselves with establishing policy and procedure.
In other words, the board would establish the criteria for hiring, but they wouldn’t be involved in the actual process.
Real world application: If the board doesn’t like the quality of people being hired, then the board needs to establish whether the hiring criteria is getting the kind of people the system needs and change it accordingly. Since the board should not be interacting directly with anyone other than the superintendent, becoming directly involved with the hiring process beyond the superintendent is overstepping the boundaries.
The board would establish the budget, but they wouldn’t tell them exactly how to spend the money.
Real world application: The “Coke” fund. Establishing criteria on how those monies are to be used in a general manner is the job of the board. Telling the school system exactly where and exactly how much is not the job of the board.
The board determines if schools need to be built or closed and how they will be funded or sold. It ’s not a particularly good idea for them to choose the architect or serve as a general contractor. (think mclp) They absolutely should determine whether to raise taxes or sell bonds.
Not- but it has to be reported (spendatures) every year.It has not been.
Everyone seems to be experts on what a Board Member should do or be involved in.
That is what I am most amazed by with the Williams’ supporters. They actually think they know everything, that they have never been wrong, their way is the only way. Think like me, think like me, think like me.
Again, I take neither side. I simply enjoy pointing out the obvious. My way or the highway. See ya!
Exactly!!
From what I can see, the way expenditures were reported was not out of line with GAAP processes. It’s not unusual for some gaps to appear mainly because of the amount of money being handled and the number of people handling the money and the number of places the money comes from. Accounting at this level is very complicated and sometimes things are done in order for things to get done. It is not a conspiracy to defraud the school system in most cases. It’s non-finance people doing finance stuff. It’s non-finance people making finance decisions. It’s just being able to do business. Again, it’s up to the board to establish if there is to be accounting beyond GAAP.
The point I want to make is there are clear procedures and guidelines and the school system has not strayed significantly away from those guidelines and procedures. Will they stray? Most do. To hold Dr. Williams to a standard that is probably not even understood in terms of GAAP is capricious.
My personal experience is that people who claim to ’see’ accounting problems where others don’t see the problems don’t know how to read a balance sheet.
“Everyone is an expert” Obviously not - or the school system wouldn’t be in this mess. I have seen people like the 4 come in to positions like this and it’s alarming the amount of damage they do in such a short period of time. Their heads are stuck firmly in dark places and they won’t even entertain the notion they might be wrong.
Williams is merely the tip of this iceberg. It’s only going to get uglier.
Acording to some - it is going to be that way Monday.
Wow! Has this commentary gotten off topic, or what? Admin apologized for being ill and delaying posts, and I told him that I was sorry to hear he wasn’t feeling well. After reading everyone’s childish put-downs to eachother….I’m not feeling so well myself!!
Honestly, I’m amazed by the way people are treating eachother on this website! (I’m referring to posts on other commentaries, as well.) People are criticizing eachother’s parenting, spelling, and intelligence! Some want to slam others by commenting where they must have gone to school, or where their children must go! The insults and namecalling flood this site!! While some claim that they have the right to hide behind fake names and remain anonymous, I find that these are the same individuals that say the meanest things. Would they be saying such awful things with their REAL names attached?? Would they want their pastors or their neighbors or their children’s teachers to know the hateful things they say??
My name is Kelly Butler, and I’m not ashamed to say that I support TBPS. I wear an orange t-shirt and have an orange sign in my yard, but I don’t boo, mock, yell out, or act disrespectful at the board meetings. I graduated from Center Grove High School, but I don’t think I’m better than anyone because of it! I have one child in a private school, one that homeschooled (now in college), and one in an Edison school, but that doesn’t mean I think my kids are better!! I love my children dearly and make choices for them that I think will be the most beneficial for their overall well-being. I believe the same is true for most everyone on this site.
I don’t believe this website was intended for childish bickering. I believe that it was intended to share information, ask questions, and share viewpoints. We can disagree, yet still be civil. It doesn’t make someone a BAD person because they support Dr. Williams, nor does it make someone BAD because they support the board.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE reread your comments and think before clicking “Submit”!! Would you be proud to attach your REAL names? If not, please erase it. Keep in mind that this is not a game, and no one will WIN by getting in the most clever last word.
Well obviously you are not in accounting or responsible for a school corporation. There are laws and rules that one must follow-for this EXACT reason-and yes EVERY cent must be accounted for…including the “coke fund” money that does indeed exist.
Futhermore, I believe with Nancy Walsh’s real estate experience, Barbara Thompson’s auditing experience-as she is an insurance auditer-and Rubie’s math skills and education, they have obviously seen something that is worth investigating. Stop trying to say these women don’t know what they’re doing. They might not have known what they were getting themselves into in this hateful township-but I think they know what they are doing.
According to the agenda Dr. Williams is going to be discussed.
III. Consider resolution regarding Superintendent, Dr. H. Douglas Williams — Mrs. Adams
http://www.msdpt.k12.in.us/html/schoolboard/documents/Agenda2-12-07.pdf
Kelly M. - Does Nancy Walsh have real estate experience? She used to babysit in her home and she worked for the Census Bureau. Is she a realtor now? Thanks in advance for filling us in!
Actually I have more accounting experience than 80% of the general population and a finance background, so I do get it.
What I get is that no one can walk in and know that particular accounting experience and while 100% accountability is wonderful, it is not reality.
Mrs Alexander has had 2 years experience on the board and she didn’t indicate expenditures were an issue. Insurance audits and financial fraud audits are not the same thing or approached the same way. Mrs. Thompson did not know that.
I don’t know their experience beyond what I’ve pointed out above, but MY experience holds true until they prove otherwise.
You are right, I am sorry-I confused her job with Tracey Berry’s job. But let me correct myself-Nancy Walsh works for the Federal Government in the Census Bureau. So all in all-she still has to have knowledge of numbers and accounting in her day to day profession. On top of her college degree specializing in mediation.
Correct me if I am wrong, but did I just read that Nancy Walsh has a college degree specializing in mediation. It seems interesting that a person who has specialized in mediation does not wish to be involved in mediation????
Ok, she works for the Federal Government in the Census Bureau. In what capacity? Just working there does not qualify someone to have knowledge of numbers and accounting. So what exactly does she do there?
Degree in mediation = irony
From my understanding, working with the Census Bureau really doesn’t mean anything at all. I’m not even sure I’d put it on a resume unless I was trying to highlight the fact that I was willing to walk up to anyone’s front door and knock on it and ask them questions. I remember being in high school and college and reading ads for local agencies hiring for these positions and there was pretty much no special requirements, training or education needed.
Why do you all want to nitpick and fight over everything? I was trying to provide information to enlighten the fact that these women do have knowledge to back their questioning of the Board’s practices as well as the administration. THAT IS THEIR JOB AS A SCHOOL BOARD MEMBER. So you can get over the fact that you think they are incompetent. They ARE doing their JOB in questioning money missing and money paid out where receipts were not provided and questioning why the Superintendent breaks policy repeatedly, even when he has been reprimanded. Maybe you don’t like the way it was handled but there are too many policies in place that have been broken and for those reasons alone Dr. Williams should be gone.
Kelly M., should the four board members also be “gone” because of the number of policies and potentially laws they’ve broken? Where’s the balance?
Name the policies they have broken please. They have IN Code to back them up. What is the IN code backing up your claims? Seriously I have an open mind-please inform me. And I would prefer a response from you, not Lee. Thank you.
Good point, Admin. Fair is fair! :0)
Kelly M., I’ve got the information I just need to have the time to post it. I’ll try and work on that this evening and get it posted tonight.
My point:
The only newly elected person who walked in ‘competent’ to do the job was Steve Maple. I don’t care what their background was prior to being elected, it didn’t prepare them for being a board member to the point where 4 months later they could justifiably remove the man from his job.
Any person I’ve ever seen do what they did acted with heads firmly in dark places.
They are in over their heads and what they should do is step back and spend more time learning than finding fault.
I think they would find out that generally speaking, there’s a really good reason for something being done the way it is being done and that they don’t know everything. If there’s not a good reason, there is probably a better way of dealing with the issue than the way they’ve been up to this point.
The sad thing is that I don’t think any of them have the character and the strength to do what is best for the community and the children, which IMO is backing off their quest and taking time to learn.
I just recently got home from tonight’s (2/12) board meeting. Guess what, people? There has been no “investigation” in regards to Dr. Williams up to this point. Adams, Walsh, Thompson, and Alexander voted to hire MORE attorneys so they can NOW start an investigation.
Just when you thought it couldn’t get any more unbelievable ……
These four talk about a lack of trust regarding Dr. Williams. How can any of us trust them? Do we really have to wait until Fall of 2008 to get some honest, open minded, forward thinking representation back on our school board?
Open note to Mrs. Adams, Mrs. Walsh, Mrs. Thompson, and Mrs. Alexander:
As a teacher in Perry Township, I would appreciate it if you no longer heaped phony praise on us like you did tonight at the end of the board meeting. Your true colors have already shown. You are not supportive of Perry’s teachers. That is sad. But we accept it and do what we can to prevail in this battle you have brought to our schools. Many of my colleagues were disgusted as you sat there tonight and complimented us with your warm, sweet accolades. Do you think that we will forget that you have already called us disruptors? How about sheep who blindly follow Terry Rice and Doug Williams? What about being called mediocre and not being creative enough to try new methods to best service our changing student body?. Mrs. Alexander, We have been told several times by you that we do not teach our black students. We endure all of this from you four, and here is the icing on the cake. We have not had any one of you listen to us or our concerns or try to learn from our first hand experiences. So, please, go back to your “business” of trying to remove Dr. Williams and leave us out of your little speeches.
T. Nance
Nance,
I have attended all board meetings since September, except for the meeting last night. Your comments regarding the board do not surprise me. At least 4 board members are trying desperately to gain any support from the Perry Township teaching staff. They do not realize the harm and hurt they have inflicted on the teachers with the consistent remarks they have made at previous board meetings. I am sure that sincere comments are always welcome, but patronizing teachers in order to gain support is just disrespectful.
On a personal note, I know many teachers, staff and administrators in Perry Township and have come to know many more since the beginning of this unfortunate “hostile takeover” of our school corporation. I can personally say that I have not met one teacher or administrator that I do not feel is giving our students the very best!!!! I have the utmost respect for the teachers in Perry Township! These teachers not only educate our children, they manage our kids lives while they are at school, they provide a role model for our children to follow and they continue to educate themselves in better more effective ways in which to perform their teaching duties.
Given the opportunity, I would stand on a mountain and shout “THANK YOU” to every teacher in Perry Township. Nance, it is important that you and your colleagues know how much your efforts are appreciated by the Parents of the children you teach.
A CALL TO ACTION TO ALL PERRY TOWNSHIP PARENTS:
If you sincerely feel as strongly as I do about the teachers in Perry Township, I call on all Perry Township Parents to make an effort to provide teachers with the positive reinforcement they provide our children. Let them know you appreciate their efforts!
Ken,
When I finished reading your personal note, I realized that I actually had tears running down my face. I know there will be many many teachers that appreciate your comments.
Thank You,
Janet Pernell
I second Ken’s comments. I just hope our talented teachers don’t choose to leave Perry Township because of the actions of our current school board majority. My children have been fortunate to have many wonderful teachers over the years. Thanks to each of you for the awesome job you do.
You’re so right, Ken! We have fabulous teachers here in MSDPT, who not only dedicate their lives to educating our children, but they love them, nurture them, listen to them, and help them through personal struggles. Teachers…thank you, thank you, thank you for all you do!!!! Don’t listen to what the board says! We parents, as well as your students, know how absolutely WONDERFUL you are!!!!!!!
Tim Nance…you, too, are right. The vicious words of the board majority in the past 3 months have damaged the morale of our teachers. It takes much more than a little pat on the back to erase the pain when you’ve had the wind knocked out of you!! Truly the token compliments from the board majority last evening seemed insincere when they’ve repeatedly said such hurtful, negative things in the past.
You poor, sad, never recgonized, under paid, demoralized, teachers of the township. My god why did you come to work for Perry Township in the first place? Could it be you are in the top 10% salaries in the state?
more paid sick days and vacation days that Eli Lilly or Allison?
insurance that is 2nd to none in the state?
Teaching in first class schools with first class equipment?
And now your best buddy, Ex-Supt Williams is gone and you feel neglected? Lost? Un-appreciated? your meal ticket gone?
Listen to this, YOUR ARE UNIONIZED! YOU HAVE A CONTRACT! A good contract. Ok Ok if you insist, leave Perry and go to work with IPS. Most of this complaining is not because you care of the ex-supt, it is because your Union rep told you to complain. Cry cry babies. Do your job your contracted for.
To PerryTwnshp Tax Payer:
At least you got two things right. We do teach in first class schools with first class equipment.
If you look around at the teachers who are brave enough to stand up and address the board at the board meetings, I think you will find that they are veteran teachers. This is mainly because the younger teachers for one have not been around long enough to be on school committees to get to know how good Dr. Williams really is. Secondly, they do not yet have tenure and afraid to stand up to their board. So these teachers that you are accusing of coming to Perry Township for the “money”, have been teaching in this township long before they had “good contracts”. I myself started teaching in Perry Township with a yearly contract of less than $17,000. Yes, you must be right…I came here and stayed here for the “money”. Teachers teach because they love it. Period.
I hope you love your job as much as I do.
To the parents of Perry Twp. (Ken, Kelly B., “Perry Mom of 3″, and all others who have ever sent a note, left a voice mail, or simply told us that you appreciate our service) - I say thank you for being supportive. It is my belief that most teachers in Perry Township do realize that we have wonderful families with great children who get it. By “it” I mean that by working together as a team, we will help the children of Perry Twp. make the greatest strides in regard to their education.
To “Perry Twp. Tax Payer” - I say I do feel fortunate to work for Perry Twp. schools. My original post was directed to the four school board members who seem to insult the teachers one minute, and then want to make themselves look better by praising us the next. I think if you go back and reread my open note to the four board members, you will see nowhere do I complain about my salary or benefits. Nowhere do I express concern about the condition of our school buildings or the equipment I use. Nor do I claim anywhere in my comments that Dr. Williams is my “best buddy”. I am not sure where you came to such conclusions but I wanted to assure you that I am very pleased to be a Perry Twp. teacher and resident. I am just not very pleased with the representation I have with four of my school board members. One last thing. These are my own thoughts, feelings, and words. Please do not state that the reason I take the time to speak out about something so important to me is because my union told me to do so. I will always say and do what I think is in the best interest of my students.
Bull - for the money? do it for free then.
To PerryTwnshp Tax Payer:
“So many people walk around with a meaningless life. They seem half-asleep, even when they’re busy doing things they think are important. This is because they’re chasing the wrong things. The way you get meaning into your life is to devote yourself to loving others, devote yourself to your community around you, and devote yourself to creating something that gives you purpose and meaning.” (Morrie Schwartz)
Politics is my passion, yet I was lucky in school to have some of the best teachers in the world and they made such a lasting impression on me that I wanted to do something for them. I decided that I would work for them, I would know what educators needed and I would fight for them in the policy shaping world.
I thought that those teachers that had inspired me and that I read about in books like Tuesdays with Morrie rarely happened, seeing as how you constantly hear about the “bad” teachers. Upon entering the education profession though, I was shocked there seemed to be more than just a few “Morrie”s.
In the past four years that I’ve been an employee of MSDPT, I have been even more shocked by these “Morrie”s…. it seems as if we have a whole district of “Morrie’”s and I have been lucky these past four years to have the opportunity to work with these “Morrie”s.
So what are “Morrie”s? Ever since reading Tuesdays with Morrie, this has become my way of classifying educators; “Morrie”s are those educators who leave lasting impressions upon their students. Impressions of life, wisdom, respect, and love; impressions that in the end mean so much more than any content standard decided upon by a “team of experts.” “Morrie”s are educators that are experts in developing children to become the persons our world needs most; people who care.
“Teachers teach because they care. Teaching young people is what they do best. It requires long hours, patience, and care.” (Horace Mann)
I came to Perry Township because of Dr.Williams; his ability, knowledge, and passion for education was the only reason I came to Perry Township.
Salary had nothing to do with it & it still doesn’t.
Vacations & hours have nothing to do with it (obviously you don’t have an educator in your life, otherwise you would know our hours) My day starts at 7 and I leave school most days at 7. I then usually work 2 hours at home making sure that my students are receiving the best education they can. My summers for the past 4 years have been spent in workshops, obtaining my master’s degree (which raised my pay $80 or so a month), and creating curriculum that teaches the students I receive every August. I took a 4 day vacation last summer…the first since I’ve graduated from college.
Insurance, yes that’s a wonderful benefit, yet again it had nothing to do with my decision to teach here. At 22 when I started, to be honest with you–I had no real understanding of the whole insurance thing.
You are right the schools & equiptment of our schools are wonderful, but again it has nothing to do with why I teach in Perry…if Dr. Williams had been superintendent of IPS, I would have gone there.
I’m sorry that you agree with our board on the notion that teachers mean nothing, obviously though you gained something from school…you can read & write; you’ve learned how to think for yourself; and obviously you live in Perry Township for a reason–could it be because of the schools, the teachers, the administrators, and the programs that Dr. Williams help to bring to Perry Township?
I know that each and every day that I walk into my classroom I have the opportunity to help shape 30 minds and the future of our country. I echo Real MSDPT employee…I hope you love your job as much as I do.
To PerryTwnshp Tax Payer,
In my opinion, teachers don’t get paid enough! If you stop and think about it, they are with your children during the week more than you are. And if your children are anything like you, their teachers deserve even more pay!
You’re real grown up calling our highly respected and admired teachers cry babies.
Perry Twnshp Tax Payer - How dare you. If you are who I think you are, your ridiculous comments do not surprise me. I challenge you to step out of the shadows and sign your name. You are nothing more than a coward, and I hope every teacher in Perry Township reads this and laughs when they realize that the source is a weak, pitiful person who feels the need to resort to attacking our wonderful teachers in order to try and justify a totally unjustifiable position. The saddest thing is that the 4 members of our so called school board do the same thing…..tear others down to make themselves appear more powerful. Perry Township teachers….please know that the hateful words written by Perry Twnshp Tax Payer are not representative of 99% of the taxpayers in this district. You have the admiration and respect of parents throughout our township. Please stay strong and know that those of us who stand against Walsh, Adams, Thompson and Alexander are working hard to insure that people like this are never again given the opportunity to disrupt the business of educating our children as they have these past 6 months.
I wonder if PerryTwnshp Tax Payer would perform his/her job for free? If not, then asking the teachers in his/her township to do so seems very unrealistic.
Additionally, from a professional standpoint, good benefits and pay are great ways to attract quality employees! Have you every applied for a job and been told that the company you are applying to has a great job with low pay, horrible benefits, and long hours? If so, how long did it take you to turn down their offer or make a mad dash out the door to your next interview????
I do not typically engage in name calling, but would like to do so now. My personal experience would lead me to call the teachers:
DEDICATED!
I can only imagine that very FEW Perry Township Residents, Taxpayers and Parents would share the same feelings as PerryTwnshp Tax Payer.
PerryTwnshp Tax Payer you’ve got lots of nerve making that kind of comment, oh no wait, you don’t because you didn’t use your real name or the name you’ve been using for awhile on this site.
I wasn’t going to say anything but thankfully others on the site can recognize your tone and writing style and probably have a good idea of who you are again.
Let me say this. I DARE you to stand up at a school board meeting and make those same comments. Show us who you really are if you have the nerve. I’m sure Susan Adams would give you as much time as you’d like to speak since you’re on her side. She’s not one to be balanced in any sense of the word.
You people are such hypocrites. All of you. It’s ridiculous to try and even say anything that goes against the way you think because all you do is belittle the people who do not think like you. Hmmmm…no wonder you are Doug Williams’ supporters. You think in the same capacity that he does.
Clarification-Before I get called out by Mr. Bean-Kelly M. and Kelly S. are one in the same person. I have recently gotten married-and my M. has changed to S. Thank you.
Kelly MS, please tell me how you think I’m not open to hearing opposing viewpoints to my thoughts and recollections. I have asked for boldly and repeatedly for people to give me reasons why I should support Dr. Williams. If they provided a legitimate reason with facts to back it up and there was no valid reason on the other side for things not to be handled differently, then I’d switch.
I’ll give you and anyone else that disagrees with my current viewpoint as much of a voice on this site as anyone else. I’ve done more moderation of comments of those in agreement with me on this site than those that oppose me. However, I demand respect from everyone to everyone.
Kelly M/S,
There is nothing hypocritical about pointing out the logic flaws of opposing viewpoints. Taxpayer was allowed to speak his/her mind and those who don’t agree are free to refute those points. What would be hypocritical would be to agree with him/her when that isn’t the case.
I find it sad that this person paints all the teachers with the same brush.
Kelly M/S,
If I understand you correctly, you seem to agree with Perry Twnshp Tax Payer?
Since I do not personally know Dr. Williams I do not know how he thinks. But if you feel that because of my position I “think in his capacity” allow me to thank you for the compliment.
Hypocritical? Hmm, I wonder how many times Nancy Walsh has hid behind her “Christianity”, yet has only made a bad name for herself and those of us who are Christians. I can’t begin to tell you how many times I have heard others say, “If that’s what being a Christian is, I want no part of it.” Christians do not set out to destroy someone’s character, even if they feel it is warranted.
My point is…how are we being hypocritcal? Have we been speaking for both sides? No, I guess I just would like an explanation. We’re debating–that’s all this blog is, a huge debate. So unless we are saying one thing and doing another, I don’t see how we are hypocritical. Maybe the word you’re looking for is educated. We’ve done all the research. We have evidence to back up every “concern” the gang of four has, so once again, hypocritical? No, just well informed.
Admin
I believe you started in your quest feeling that way and being passionate about trying to get your superintendent back, that I completely understand and wholeheartedly agree with, but the more time that passes, it seems that you either get angrier, more bitter, or just downright mean in your replies and the examples of that are when you call people out on the websites (you and Kelly Butler both do this), hostile replies to people who do not agree with you or have a different take on the situation than you, and a somewhat mocking tone towards the people who do not agree with you. That is unacceptable to me and I do not think there is any reason for you to belittle the people who choose to read this website and post replies or responses even if they are not the same line of thinking as yours. You created this website to provide information, a lot of which I have found helpful myself and I think that is what you need to continue to do.
Ken, please explain to me where or how I agree with Perry Taxpayer?
I love the teachers of our township and am sad that they are going through all of this but there are also teachers out there in the township who are happy that Dr. Williams is gone. Of course you wouldn’t know this because the “silent majority” thinkers tend to stick together on the present subject. And please don’t try and tell me I am wrong on that-there are many teachers I have spoken to in the Township, some of which taught me, who do support their board. That doesn’t mean I discredit the teachers who do want him back. That is their perogative and their right and has absolutely NOTHING to do with how they teach the children in the township. We have great teachers. Bottom line. It does not matter what “side of the fence” they are on.
Kelly S, please point out to my where you feel my replies were “hostile” and “belittling”. If you right-click on the comment date and select “Copy Shortcut” you can provide me direct links to the comments of mine you’re referring to. I am sincerely interested in your response to this question.
Touche’!!! Yhe point is, you still some of the highest paid, best insured, highly acclaimed, most spoiled teachers in the state. You havnet missed a paycheck. Your insurance is paid up. You are taking your many sick days and vacation days, and still, you are complaining about your bosses, the school board. Your boss is not the Supt. Has anyone thought about that? Duh? I did not question your work ethics nor your ability to teach. Still IPS needs teachers…. any takers?
I, too, would like an example of my hostile or belittling replies.
PerryTwnshp Tax Payer:
why don’t you try to get your teaching liscense? I am not a teacher. I know that I’m not able to be a good teacher. But, I will support teachers in every sense of the word. I find it disgusting that you would even suggest that most of the teachers are in it for the money or the other reasons you have suggested. Please stop and think before you post.
I have no idea who you are but listen, for the most part, all this TBPS is either Williams hangers on or teachers. The School Board is the final decision makers here. Any decision made for any contracts, programs, buildings, you name it the school board makes that decision. And these people are bad mouthing the School Board? Contractors to the Township? Name calling? Disgusting remarks about board members under hidden names? Speaking out in public at board meetings which is ok but you can not bite the hand that feeds you!!! Do you not think that the terrible 4 will remember all this action? Do you not think the terrible 4 will not remember names? Talk about disgusting remarks… I am just calling it like it is.. I hold a teachers license sir. my supt is meaner than your ex-supt. but my boss is the IPS Board of Education.Election time is when I voice whom I want to work for.
If you are a teacher then good for you. You do a job that I doubt I have the ability to perform. But, that is still no reason to call other teachers cry babies and disrepect them because they may have a better situation than you. Did you go into the profession for the money? I doubt it. I imagine you became a teacher because you wanted to make a difference. Can a teacher only make a difference in a poor situation? A good teacher can make a difference anywhere they go.
I applaud the teachers in Perry township. They are the teachers I know. I support them.
I agree with Kelly MS. I have been trying to get that point across for weeks.
Kelly mentions some names but there are others that do what she referes to and basically you turn people off to your cause, regardless of the 4’s actions. I don’t like the way the 4 have acted but I also don’t like how many on the other side (More than 4) have acted.
Were you trying to get this point across before or after you called Michael Taylor a pain in the butt? Were you trying to get this point across when you told him that he must be a Rosa Parks Edison parent because he was arrogant? Or were you trying to get your point across when you told everyone that they should either move or put their kids in private school because you don’t like people disagreeing with the board??
Hello, pot! Meet kettle.
I believe that Renee turns people off with the comments that she has posted here under various pseudonyms. The same thing could be said for many others supporting the current school board majority. Does the opinion of the pro-teacher faction count or is it just the anti-school district group whose opinion matters?
It looks to me like every comment whether here or on the indystar site supporting the current board majority is being written by the same person.
You guys really are smart.
To Even more perplexed,
I was trying to get some points across before Mr. Taylor became a pain.
The Rosa Parks comment, well, if it walks like a duck…
I did say people should move or attend private school but I did not state that because I don’t like people disagreeing with the board.
I honestly don’t care at this point. Nothing will get resolved or done until the next election.
Who is Renee?
I don’t understand why someone would make an accusation that RPE parents are arrogant. There is no socio-economic status difference in the students at RPE than that of Burkhart, Lincoln, Glenns Valley, etc. There are hispanic children, northern district children, children from apartments and Sunshine Gardens, as well as children from Mrs. Walsh’s neighborhood. Students are picked to go to RPE and JGE based on ‘luck’…their names are drawn out of a hat. It’s not a private school that requires tuition, so why try to create the illusion that these parents are rich snobs? There are many wonderful parents at RPE who love their children and volunteer their time, just as there are many wonderful parents who love their children and volunteer their time at all of the other surrounding elementaries. To me, the comment was divisive. Heaven knows we’ve got enough divisiveness going on without adding insult to injury.
To Renee (a.k.a. Even More Confused et. al.),
If you can’t stand the heat, get out of the kitchen. You should expect to be challenged when you make broad and/or inaccurate assumptions and accusations. Your points get lost in your presuppositions and bias. A reality check would do you well.
To:
Silence Dogood
Feb 6th, 2007 at 9:53 pm
Was the waste of money by the leadership of the board forcing a meeting with a paid consultant prior to a commitment from all members of the board to attend or by the logical reasonable members of the board that know it is a waste of time because the persoanl vendetta group only wants the appearance of mediation and not the reality of what it might lead to?
So what are you saying? That Gayle Houchin and Steve Maple now run the show? Here is fact for you: They ALL agreed to this meeting with Mr. Balsh at the school board meeting. Fact: After the the school board meeting is When they decided not to attend this meeting. So just because they decided not to attend everyone else is suppose to go along with it? They didn’t vote to not have this meeting anymore because they didn’t want to go. Maybe these TWO are a problem with this board too.
Jo Ellen went. So why not them? As I said before THEY have no room to talk about anyone wasting money. They out and out choose to waste tax payers money. About this “personal vendetta group” you all talk about so much. I’m guess that you all have proof about this? This is just gossip that one of you made up, and now you all call it a fact. Where is your proof? You all keep talking about all this proof that you have against the 4, but yet none has appeared. Now talk about the pot calling the kettle black.
to others:
How about this stipend pay Terry Rice ask for? Does everyone know that Stipend pay is 3 times his regular pay? Why should he get that? And the timing on this whole thing seems to wrap all around him not getting his pay. How I know about the Stipend pay - I ask a school board member what it was.
And you are right about our taxes going up but it won’t be to pay Williams’s contract off. It’s going to be because of paying for the Edisons schools. The Lily grant has ran out. Now we have to pay for the schools out of our taxes. I believe it is about 180,000.00 a month. That money has to come from somewhere.
Joe Momma, welcome back.
You need to check your facts for the costs of Edison schools. I’ll be verifying on this end as well. However, I believe the Edison schools actually cost less to run monthly than some of the other schools in the township. The Lilly grant was only used as start-up funds and was never intended as the basis for ongoing monthly expenses. The cost to run the Edison is school is basically on par with other schools in the township and the students in that school receive funds from the same government agency that other schools receive their per student costs.
Admin,
If the Edison schools cost less and are so much better then why are we not doing this with all schools in the township?
EMC, I didn’t say they cost less than all schools in the township, just some. I’d say the other reason we don’t hand off all of our schools to Edison is because the township wouldn’t be interested in handing off control of every school to Edison.
Admn- If every school in Perry was Edison the taxpayers would revolt, the Boston Tea Party would be just a happening in comparison
William-ized, I didn’t suggest that all schools SHOULD be Edison, so not sure where your comment is coming from there. I’m curious though as to why you would revolt against schools that are very successful in our township and the families and teachers love? If, as has been suggested by Susan Adams, RPE and JGE were no longer “Edison” schools, would you still not have your kids attend there? Would there still be a township wide revolt.
Jason,
I will look into this further, I was only going by what Max Oldman had said at the School Board Meeting. I would also like to know if this would indeed make our taxes go up. Don’t get me wrong, I personally have Nothing against the Edison’s schools. But I would like for the CORRECT reasons to come out IF our taxes do raise. I have read where certain people written things (their opinions) as to why the school board members have personal vendettas, against Williams. In my opinion, the reasons they give are lame. One because her daughter was kicked off cheer leading squad, One because her son was slapped by another child, One because she didn’t like a play that was put on, One because she wants William’s job. No proof here, only opinions/gossip. But yet, they state it as a Fact. And it’s not. I like you Jason want FACTS. Not school yard gossip. What do you know about the Stipends pay? I was shocked when I learned about this. Look in on it at your end and let me know about what you find out, will ya. If it is true that it is 3x his regular pay then, I think that, there is something very wrong here. Because, I heard that in Oct. there were still classrooms at PMHS without desks. I can’t swear to it but, I believe I also heard this at a school board meeting.
I don’t understand WHY Terry Rice thinks he is entitled to 3x his regular pay to teach teachers how to speak Spanish. In my opinion, he is asking for a little much.
Jason I know your child goes to Edison’s and so let me tell you this, I’ve talked to 2 board members about contract thing. I have been told that “the Edison’s contract were NEVER in danger of not getting passed.” Steve Maple, Gayle Houchin, Jo Ellen Buffie, and Rubie Alexander have ALWAYS made it clear that they back the Edison’s schools 100%. I knew this, just from going to the school board meetings. I believe that Williams wanted a 7/0 vote and that is why he and Terry Rice rallied the teachers and parents of the Edison’s school AGAINST the board members to pressure the others to go along with it. I believe that everything started at this point.
I believe that there are other things going on here, and we are not getting the whole picture. I also believe that Williams behavior over the whole Edison’s ordeal is WHAT indeed brought about his being put on leave. I’m sure there must be other reasons as well. But I think that the stunt he pulled on Oct. 3rd. is WHAT made the board look into his actions on other issues.
Jason, Please check out this whole stipends pay thing and get back with me on that will ya. Thanks
I think it is important to realize that the Edison concept brings something unique to Perry Township. This unique concept does not exist in Center Grove, Greenwood, Franklin or Decatur.
When New Tech High comes to Perry Township, our township will once again be forging ahead with new ideas and a unique concept. I think all Perry Township resident and taxpayers should embrace the unique educational concepts that currently exist and the ones that are on their way.
Though I am supportive of the school board minority and I disapprove of how the school board majority is operating (ruining) our school district, I am not a big fan Edison Schools Inc. or of the New Tech High. Not that this matters. I just think it is important to express the diversity of opinion that exists within our pro-schools/pro-teacher coalition.
“One because her son was slapped by another child,”
I don’t know other than it’s on her web site. She also is concerned about math.
Joe Mamma, I just posted a response and clarification to your concerns about the stipends received from Nancy Walsh.