Comments on: 2006 ISTEP Results Coming Soon http://www.wesupportwilliams.com/news/2006/12/21/2006-istep-results-coming-soon/ An Online Forum for Voices to be Heard and Facts Understood Tue, 23 Dec 2008 11:50:52 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.1.3 By: PM student http://www.wesupportwilliams.com/news/2006/12/21/2006-istep-results-coming-soon/#comment-407 PM student Thu, 21 Dec 2006 17:47:36 +0000 http://www.wesupportwilliams.com/news/2006/12/21/2006-istep-results-coming-soon/#comment-407 Another wonderful performance from Perry Township. Just another reason to keep Dr. Williams! I really didn't like the way the board made this decision to get rid of him. But now that Dr. Williams is gone, why the big hullabaloo to get him back? Perry schools are failing. Another wonderful performance from Perry Township. Just another reason to keep Dr. Williams!

I really didn’t like the way the board made this decision to get rid of him. But now that Dr. Williams is gone, why the big hullabaloo to get him back? Perry schools are failing.

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By: SFC Brett Naum http://www.wesupportwilliams.com/news/2006/12/21/2006-istep-results-coming-soon/#comment-409 SFC Brett Naum Thu, 21 Dec 2006 20:34:05 +0000 http://www.wesupportwilliams.com/news/2006/12/21/2006-istep-results-coming-soon/#comment-409 PM student, Since you are only a naive (high school?) student that is not responsible for having to pay property taxes and support a family nor experienced enough to competently evaluate this situation, I will educate you about the "big hullabaloo" regarding this issue. First off, there is a matter of proper professional and ethical conduct and this board's lack of either. When you make decisions such as this that impact a community and the amount of increased taxes they will have to pay it had better be justly supported with facts based on poor performance or misconduct. Misconduct is alledged but unsupported by any bonafide facts. The length of time that has passed without disclosure of said facts directly reflects that they do not truly exist. Perception is reality. As I personally reviewed the ISTEP scores for the state I concluded that the system is broken statewide when comparing scores. I do note that there appears to be a trend of slow progress over the last several years. I still stand by what is an easy to prove fact that parents impact a students grades more so than any teacher, school or administrator. That's a tough pill to swallow for many people but I will challenge them to prove me wrong. If Perry schools are failing then blame each student that chooses not to make the effort(or even care) as well as their parents for caring even less about their children's education. Few teachers are to blame and if I'm not mistaken, Dr. Williams does not teach in the classrooms. In the army we have a saying "Lead by Example". This is a good philosophy to carry into your everyday life. This is certainly an example that this board needs to adopt. PM student,
Since you are only a naive (high school?) student that is not responsible for having to pay property taxes and support a family nor experienced enough to competently evaluate this situation, I will educate you about the “big hullabaloo” regarding this issue. First off, there is a matter of proper professional and ethical conduct and this board’s lack of either. When you make decisions such as this that impact a community and the amount of increased taxes they will have to pay it had better be justly supported with facts based on poor performance or misconduct. Misconduct is alledged but unsupported by any bonafide facts. The length of time that has passed without disclosure of said facts directly reflects that they do not truly exist. Perception is reality. As I personally reviewed the ISTEP scores for the state I concluded that the system is broken statewide when comparing scores. I do note that there appears to be a trend of slow progress over the last several years. I still stand by what is an easy to prove fact that parents impact a students grades more so than any teacher, school or administrator. That’s a tough pill to swallow for many people but I will challenge them to prove me wrong. If Perry schools are failing then blame each student that chooses not to make the effort(or even care) as well as their parents for caring even less about their children’s education. Few teachers are to blame and if I’m not mistaken, Dr. Williams does not teach in the classrooms. In the army we have a saying “Lead by Example”. This is a good philosophy to carry into your everyday life. This is certainly an example that this board needs to adopt.

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By: PM student http://www.wesupportwilliams.com/news/2006/12/21/2006-istep-results-coming-soon/#comment-411 PM student Thu, 21 Dec 2006 21:39:58 +0000 http://www.wesupportwilliams.com/news/2006/12/21/2006-istep-results-coming-soon/#comment-411 You can take the ad hominem approach against me as much as you want. I don't mind. The fact that I am a student should not change your view of my opinion. Disagree with me for the opinion I share, not for the status I hold. I really don't like what the school board did - find a copy of my letter to the editor about the matter in a recent issue of the Perry Meridian FOCUS and you'll see exactly where I stand. Yes, the board executed a poorly timed, ill-communuicated decision. However, save for spiting the board, the stalwart rampage supports a man who leads a failing school district. Are there solid reasons for the impetus of such degree? I agree wholeheartedly that the parents are the first to blame. Teachers less so. Administrators have a minuscule role in a child's education. Yet to play the parent card assumes ignorance; every school district in the nation could say likewise. That argument washes against every student in the world. Thus, there must be other reasons that Perry scores lower on the ISTEP and post-secondary entrance exams. The face of Perry, as with every school district, is the superintendent. Just as in sports, when the team begins to lose, the first person to blame is the coach. Is he entirely at fault? No. Could he be innocent of the team's losing ways? Certainly. But he must take the shellacking for the team; usually, this results in his dismissal. In the same manner, Dr. Williams might be at no fault for the poor educational scores, yet he is still responsible. Most concerned citizens tend to assume this board's decision at face value. These unmentionable, watery excuses for his dismissal should sound alarms in the mind. There just might be an aggregation of faults just underneath this veiled guise. Always remember - protest long enough that you are right, and you will most certainly be wrong. You can take the ad hominem approach against me as much as you want. I don’t mind. The fact that I am a student should not change your view of my opinion. Disagree with me for the opinion I share, not for the status I hold.

I really don’t like what the school board did - find a copy of my letter to the editor about the matter in a recent issue of the Perry Meridian FOCUS and you’ll see exactly where I stand. Yes, the board executed a poorly timed, ill-communuicated decision. However, save for spiting the board, the stalwart rampage supports a man who leads a failing school district. Are there solid reasons for the impetus of such degree?

I agree wholeheartedly that the parents are the first to blame. Teachers less so. Administrators have a minuscule role in a child’s education. Yet to play the parent card assumes ignorance; every school district in the nation could say likewise. That argument washes against every student in the world.

Thus, there must be other reasons that Perry scores lower on the ISTEP and post-secondary entrance exams. The face of Perry, as with every school district, is the superintendent. Just as in sports, when the team begins to lose, the first person to blame is the coach. Is he entirely at fault? No. Could he be innocent of the team’s losing ways? Certainly. But he must take the shellacking for the team; usually, this results in his dismissal. In the same manner, Dr. Williams might be at no fault for the poor educational scores, yet he is still responsible.

Most concerned citizens tend to assume this board’s decision at face value. These unmentionable, watery excuses for his dismissal should sound alarms in the mind. There just might be an aggregation of faults just underneath this veiled guise.

Always remember - protest long enough that you are right, and you will most certainly be wrong.

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By: Dave Oswalt http://www.wesupportwilliams.com/news/2006/12/21/2006-istep-results-coming-soon/#comment-412 Dave Oswalt Thu, 21 Dec 2006 22:12:26 +0000 http://www.wesupportwilliams.com/news/2006/12/21/2006-istep-results-coming-soon/#comment-412 In a previous post, SFC Brett Naum states that parents are the sole cause of the high drop out rate in Perry Township and he alludes to that theory a second time. I would suggest that the issue is larger than simply saying the parents are the singular cause. I would suggest that it is a combination of personal, legislative and philosophical causes. My child dropped out of high school (Southport) at the first moment our legal and educational system allowed. He did not have my support or blessing. Maybe the laws should be changed to prevent this. Personally, as his father, I accept my share of the responsibility. I failed to impart to him the importance of a general education for competition in the workplace and for his own self esteem. At the same time, however, the school system should also accept their portion of the responsibility. Although I do not applaud the manner in which the board removed Dr. Williams as I believe he did have the best interest of the students at heart, I do applaud their concern about how the school system is operating and how our tax dollars are spent when there is such a high drop out rate and stagnant test scores. I entrusted Perry Township to educate my child. After all, I'm forced to work 8-10 hours a day to make a living so I can pay my property taxes to help keep the school system open, in addition to providing my child and family with food, shelter, clothing, medical coverage, entertainment and other stuff that sucks my discretionary dollars out of my wallet. I apologize but I am unable devote the necessary hours to properly educate my child myself. I do want I can. I ask, are not the people working as teachers and administrators the professionals? Don't they have the credentials, the education, the passion, the knowledge to make certain that all our children are properly educated? Is not the excessive drop out rate and stagnant test scores an indication of their collective job performance? Why did they not engage my child in the manner that he needed? Why did they not adjust their teaching styles, the curriculum, the extra-circular activities to accommodate his personality or his desires? Aside from the personal and at-home issues regarding the drop out rate and test scores, I do support the teachers and administrators as they have a difficult job with too many limiting legal and philosophical restraints. Yet, I believe that they could, within those restraints, engage and motivate the students that are at risk and thus reduce the drop out rate. Maybe there should be a philosophical shift in the way our children are taught in the public school systems, including Perry Township. I can not present a sure-fire solution to this issue as I'm not an expert on child education. I trust the school system to do this as they are the experts. I don't believe that the solution is as simple as placing the blame solely on the parents. Furthermore, if the school board is to blame, as SFC Brett Naum suggests, then the start of a solution would be to take the township in a new direction, as the current way things are done is not producing the desired results. Certainly disagree with their methods, but at least they recognize the issue and are doing something about it. In a previous post, SFC Brett Naum states that parents are the sole cause of the high drop out rate in Perry Township and he alludes to that theory a second time.

I would suggest that the issue is larger than simply saying the parents are the singular cause. I would suggest that it is a combination of personal, legislative and philosophical causes.

My child dropped out of high school (Southport) at the first moment our legal and educational system allowed. He did not have my support or blessing. Maybe the laws should be changed to prevent this.

Personally, as his father, I accept my share of the responsibility. I failed to impart to him the importance of a general education for competition in the workplace and for his own self esteem.

At the same time, however, the school system should also accept their portion of the responsibility.

Although I do not applaud the manner in which the board removed Dr. Williams as I believe he did have the best interest of the students at heart, I do applaud their concern about how the school system is operating and how our tax dollars are spent when there is such a high drop out rate and stagnant test scores.

I entrusted Perry Township to educate my child. After all, I’m forced to work 8-10 hours a day to make a living so I can pay my property taxes to help keep the school system open, in addition to providing my child and family with food, shelter, clothing, medical coverage, entertainment and other stuff that sucks my discretionary dollars out of my wallet. I apologize but I am unable devote the necessary hours to properly educate my child myself. I do want I can.

I ask, are not the people working as teachers and administrators the professionals? Don’t they have the credentials, the education, the passion, the knowledge to make certain that all our children are properly educated? Is not the excessive drop out rate and stagnant test scores an indication of their collective job performance?

Why did they not engage my child in the manner that he needed? Why did they not adjust their teaching styles, the curriculum, the extra-circular activities to accommodate his personality or his desires?

Aside from the personal and at-home issues regarding the drop out rate and test scores, I do support the teachers and administrators as they have a difficult job with too many limiting legal and philosophical restraints. Yet, I believe that they could, within those restraints, engage and motivate the students that are at risk and thus reduce the drop out rate. Maybe there should be a philosophical shift in the way our children are taught in the public school systems, including Perry Township.

I can not present a sure-fire solution to this issue as I’m not an expert on child education. I trust the school system to do this as they are the experts. I don’t believe that the solution is as simple as placing the blame solely on the parents.

Furthermore, if the school board is to blame, as SFC Brett Naum suggests, then the start of a solution would be to take the township in a new direction, as the current way things are done is not producing the desired results. Certainly disagree with their methods, but at least they recognize the issue and are doing something about it.

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By: Kelly http://www.wesupportwilliams.com/news/2006/12/21/2006-istep-results-coming-soon/#comment-416 Kelly Thu, 21 Dec 2006 23:00:18 +0000 http://www.wesupportwilliams.com/news/2006/12/21/2006-istep-results-coming-soon/#comment-416 SFC Brett Naum- Thanks for your input!! That's a terrific point that you made! I agree that it is the parent input or lack of input that is the greatest factor in whether a child is successful in school or not! It is SOOO much easier for a parent who feels like a failure to point the finger at Dr. Williams and blame him for their child's problems. Of course we all know that when they point their finger at Dr. Williams, they've got three pointed right back at themselves!! In addition, I'd like to add that Susan Adams spoke very negatively about Rosa Parks Edison Elementary and their prior I-Step scores. Of course since the school is new, the first couple of years do not reflect RPE, but the education that the children received at their previous elementary. I do hope that Susan is aware how well Rosa Parks did this year!! The fifth grade class scored higher than any other MSDPT elementary!! Mrs. Tatum's class had 100% passing rate!! The third grade class, which began their education with Edison schooling, did fantastic!! Way to go Rosa Parks Edison students!! SFC Brett Naum-
Thanks for your input!! That’s a terrific point that you made! I agree that it is the parent input or lack of input that is the greatest factor in whether a child is successful in school or not! It is SOOO much easier for a parent who feels like a failure to point the finger at Dr. Williams and blame him for their child’s problems. Of course we all know that when they point their finger at Dr. Williams, they’ve got three pointed right back at themselves!!

In addition, I’d like to add that Susan Adams spoke very negatively about Rosa Parks Edison Elementary and their prior I-Step scores. Of course since the school is new, the first couple of years do not reflect RPE, but the education that the children received at their previous elementary. I do hope that Susan is aware how well Rosa Parks did this year!! The fifth grade class scored higher than any other MSDPT elementary!! Mrs. Tatum’s class had 100% passing rate!! The third grade class, which began their education with Edison schooling, did fantastic!!

Way to go Rosa Parks Edison students!!

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By: PM student http://www.wesupportwilliams.com/news/2006/12/21/2006-istep-results-coming-soon/#comment-418 PM student Fri, 22 Dec 2006 01:34:29 +0000 http://www.wesupportwilliams.com/news/2006/12/21/2006-istep-results-coming-soon/#comment-418 Another interesting stat from these results is the trend between Perry and Southport. In the middle school level, Southport and PM scores are relatively the same (Southport has a slight edge). By 10th grade, PM scores significantly higher than Southport. These results are confirmed by previous years' testing. Much to the chagrin of the Southport Journal, it seems this stat is more and more a proven fact rather than fiction. What happens in the early high school years at Southport? I know this has nothing to do with Dr. Williams, but it contributes to the alarming ISTEP scores from Perry Township... Another interesting stat from these results is the trend between Perry and Southport. In the middle school level, Southport and PM scores are relatively the same (Southport has a slight edge). By 10th grade, PM scores significantly higher than Southport.

These results are confirmed by previous years’ testing. Much to the chagrin of the Southport Journal, it seems this stat is more and more a proven fact rather than fiction. What happens in the early high school years at Southport?

I know this has nothing to do with Dr. Williams, but it contributes to the alarming ISTEP scores from Perry Township…

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By: pm grad http://www.wesupportwilliams.com/news/2006/12/21/2006-istep-results-coming-soon/#comment-424 pm grad Fri, 22 Dec 2006 06:02:26 +0000 http://www.wesupportwilliams.com/news/2006/12/21/2006-istep-results-coming-soon/#comment-424 I started into this subject thinking that there would possibly be facts about the ISTEP scores, but this is what i find. I am very appreciative of this site for all of the information. Also I find the replys very interesting, but it seems some of these replys are aimed not only at commented opinions, but aimed at other's status. Replying on opinions that others have is one thing, but going at one another is totally different. This seems rediculous to me that civil people would act in this manner. Pointlessly attacking each other does not in any way help this problem. I hope that we are able to act like adults. This is a problem and a solution will come, but until then, try to respect each other. I started into this subject thinking that there would possibly be facts about the ISTEP scores, but this is what i find. I am very appreciative of this site for all of the information. Also I find the replys very interesting, but it seems some of these replys are aimed not only at commented opinions, but aimed at other’s status. Replying on opinions that others have is one thing, but going at one another is totally different. This seems rediculous to me that civil people would act in this manner. Pointlessly attacking each other does not in any way help this problem. I hope that we are able to act like adults. This is a problem and a solution will come, but until then, try to respect each other.

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By: Anthony Karushis http://www.wesupportwilliams.com/news/2006/12/21/2006-istep-results-coming-soon/#comment-425 Anthony Karushis Fri, 22 Dec 2006 11:21:42 +0000 http://www.wesupportwilliams.com/news/2006/12/21/2006-istep-results-coming-soon/#comment-425 to Dave Oswalt: I understand your frustration but I want to answer some of your questions. "I ask, are not the people working as teachers and administrators the professionals? Don’t they have the credentials, the education, the passion, the knowledge to make certain that all our children are properly educated? Is not the excessive drop out rate and stagnant test scores an indication of their collective job performance?" first of all how many children do you have? Ever try to teach more than 20 at once? Ever try to deal with 20 different backgrounds and personalities? Ever try to teach? No, I'm not a teacher. Yes, they should have the training. No, they can not do it all for you. I believe that an person that wants to be a teacher must be passionate about their profession. I know I couldn't do it. How to make an impact on kids that don't want to learn? Don't blame the teacher. Most of them are doing more for our kids than anyone else. I applaud them. Theya re underpaid and overworked. Ever see how many are there on weekends and late nights They are underappreciated and they continue to do a great job anyway. As for parent involvement, it is not the only answer. But, you say you don't have time. I work 8 hours a day myself and I know what my child is doing in school. I still know his teachers on a first name basis. I make time. Everyone, me included, needs to shoulder some of the responsibility for the education of the children. to Dave Oswalt:

I understand your frustration but I want to answer some of your questions.

“I ask, are not the people working as teachers and administrators the professionals? Don’t they have the credentials, the education, the passion, the knowledge to make certain that all our children are properly educated? Is not the excessive drop out rate and stagnant test scores an indication of their collective job performance?”

first of all how many children do you have? Ever try to teach more than 20 at once? Ever try to deal with 20 different backgrounds and personalities? Ever try to teach?

No, I’m not a teacher. Yes, they should have the training. No, they can not do it all for you. I believe that an person that wants to be a teacher must be passionate about their profession. I know I couldn’t do it. How to make an impact on kids that don’t want to learn? Don’t blame the teacher. Most of them are doing more for our kids than anyone else. I applaud them. Theya re underpaid and overworked. Ever see how many are there on weekends and late nights They are underappreciated and they continue to do a great job anyway.

As for parent involvement, it is not the only answer. But, you say you don’t have time. I work 8 hours a day myself and I know what my child is doing in school. I still know his teachers on a first name basis. I make time. Everyone, me included, needs to shoulder some of the responsibility for the education of the children.

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By: SFC Brett Naum http://www.wesupportwilliams.com/news/2006/12/21/2006-istep-results-coming-soon/#comment-428 SFC Brett Naum Fri, 22 Dec 2006 14:09:07 +0000 http://www.wesupportwilliams.com/news/2006/12/21/2006-istep-results-coming-soon/#comment-428 Dave, I noticed that on your personal blog that you said: "A comment posted by a SFC Brett Naum stated that the parents are the sole reason for the child's success or failure in school. He stated this in the context that the school board, the teachers or the administrator (Williams) are not responsible for the failure." This is a distortion of what I actually said. Carefully reread both of my posts regarding this. What you will find is that I have placed the MAJORITY of blame on the parents as they (quote) "IMPACT" their children's education more than anyone else. You can make excuses about having to work long hours all day long as a reason for not getting more involved. MOST people work those hours. I am an Active Duty soldier that works long hours and many times is away. I still place priority in my children and their education by being involved. A phone call or email to the teacher is usually sufficient for communication. IF the teacher fails to communicate then it's time for the face-to-face to discuss MY expectations. I don't except excuses. They accomplish nothing. Dave,
I noticed that on your personal blog that you said:

“A comment posted by a SFC Brett Naum stated that the parents are the sole reason for the child’s success or failure in school. He stated this in the context that the school board, the teachers or the administrator (Williams) are not responsible for the failure.”

This is a distortion of what I actually said. Carefully reread both of my posts regarding this. What you will find is that I have placed the MAJORITY of blame on the parents as they (quote) “IMPACT” their children’s education more than anyone else. You can make excuses about having to work long hours all day long as a reason for not getting more involved. MOST people work those hours. I am an Active Duty soldier that works long hours and many times is away. I still place priority in my children and their education by being involved. A phone call or email to the teacher is usually sufficient for communication. IF the teacher fails to communicate then it’s time for the face-to-face to discuss MY expectations. I don’t except excuses. They accomplish nothing.

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By: Confused http://www.wesupportwilliams.com/news/2006/12/21/2006-istep-results-coming-soon/#comment-431 Confused Fri, 22 Dec 2006 16:52:53 +0000 http://www.wesupportwilliams.com/news/2006/12/21/2006-istep-results-coming-soon/#comment-431 For one, the two HS don't use the same model for teaching. One uses block scheduling and the other doesn't. There are other differences but I won't go into them. The two schools, IMO, are and have been treated differently for a very long time. Wait until we have to re-district and see where the lines are drawn. For one, the two HS don’t use the same model for teaching. One uses block scheduling and the other doesn’t. There are other differences but I won’t go into them.

The two schools, IMO, are and have been treated differently for a very long time.

Wait until we have to re-district and see where the lines are drawn.

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By: Marcia Casey http://www.wesupportwilliams.com/news/2006/12/21/2006-istep-results-coming-soon/#comment-438 Marcia Casey Sat, 23 Dec 2006 02:02:28 +0000 http://www.wesupportwilliams.com/news/2006/12/21/2006-istep-results-coming-soon/#comment-438 Thank you Anthony for supporting what the teachers do for the students in our township, or in ANY school system. We not only have to try to individualize our instruction for 20 students in order for them to master the Indiana Standards, but we also have to figure out the best way to reach each student based on their situations at home. We have to be teachers as well as parents to these children during our seven or more hours with them each day. Getting a student to succeed in school (and in life) is a committment that must be made by the three parties involved...the parent, the teacher, AND the student. If one or more of these parties fails to do his part, the student will be the one to suffer. If our drop out rate was even one student a year, this is one student too many. We all have to take the time to work together to reach the students and let them know the importance of education. ISTEP scores, SAT scores, or any standardized test scores show what the student remembers about what was taught. But are these scores totally accurate? No. The student may not be feeling well the day of the test, have test anxiety, or just decide to blow it off. We, as teachers, have a curriculum that must be taught to match the Indiana Academic Standards. We teach to the best of our ability making adaptations and accomodations for each student's learning style. We chose this profession to help children learn. That is what we do. ISTEP scores, that are not 'perfect', are out of our control, once we have taught and assessed the studen